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 Post subject: 7200 3.2.2 MU6 vs 3.3.1 and Service processor 5.0
PostPosted: Wed May 01, 2019 12:51 pm 

Joined: Fri Aug 26, 2016 3:52 pm
Posts: 5
I'm confused. I received a message from HPE that a new service processor was out 5.0.5 and though this is great they made everything look like modern and it provides InfoSight. Much better than the 4.0 service processor I have currently.

I ask support for the upgrade and they say I am not able to because I am on 3.2.2 MU6 which is current. But then I am stuck with the old server processor and no InfoSight.

I now get an message from support:
"As the 7K & 10K array model hardware wont be supported for Compression + dedup process. Which the 3.3.1.XX OS having option.

We need to work with Engineering team to get the process approval to proceed with OS upgrade to 3.3.1.XX on this array. "

This just helps to confuse me further as my little 7200 already does compression.

I am just a little 1 man IT shop trying to stay above water. Any advice is appreciated.


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 Post subject: Re: 7200 3.2.2 MU6 vs 3.3.1 and Service processor 5.0
PostPosted: Wed May 01, 2019 1:26 pm 

Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2016 9:32 pm
Posts: 88
Hiya,

Are you confusing "compression" with "compaction" ? With 3.2.2 code on your array you are not doing "compression".
- on 3.2.2 code level, "compaction" is the combined savings for "de-duplication" and "thin"

We also had to get approval from engineering to run 3.3.1 code on our 8200 and 8400 arrays, because the CPU grunt is less (even more so in your case) we had to agree not to use compression (and de-dupe in our case).


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 Post subject: Re: 7200 3.2.2 MU6 vs 3.3.1 and Service processor 5.0
PostPosted: Wed May 01, 2019 1:41 pm 

Joined: Fri Aug 26, 2016 3:52 pm
Posts: 5
Yes, I am confusing compression vs compaction. That solves 1 confusion.

I am still confused by multiple "current" 3par versions and service processors. The big claim by HP when we bought it was all 3pars run the same software. That it was really horsepower and nodes that allowed it to scale.


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 Post subject: Re: 7200 3.2.2 MU6 vs 3.3.1 and Service processor 5.0
PostPosted: Thu May 02, 2019 1:02 am 

Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2016 9:32 pm
Posts: 88
CarlM wrote:
Yes, I am confusing compression vs compaction. That solves 1 confusion.

I am still confused by multiple "current" 3par versions and service processors. The big claim by HP when we bought it was all 3pars run the same software. That it was really horsepower and nodes that allowed it to scale.


3.3.1 is quite a big re-write under the covers compared to 3.2.2 ... basically 3.2.2 is broken for some things (de-dupe for one), so they re-did it with 3.3.1 ... and broke new things :-) .. and then also caved in to the marketing department and added new features (compression, with new bugs).
Compression is also done on the CPU of the 3PAR, not the ASICs (dedupe and thin is in the ASICs), the 7200 would be underpowered to do compression .. is the view of HPE.

But yes they really need to knuckle down and stabilise the code into one stream and stop the feature creep ... but oh wait didn;t they buy another storage vendor and that is now their shiney new toy and the 3PAR is now old and boring ? :-)

HPE is like a big kid ... always wants the new toys and never finishes building the old ones.


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 Post subject: Re: 7200 3.2.2 MU6 vs 3.3.1 and Service processor 5.0
PostPosted: Thu May 02, 2019 7:08 am 

Joined: Fri Aug 26, 2016 3:52 pm
Posts: 5
markinnz wrote:
CarlM wrote:
Yes, I am confusing compression vs compaction. That solves 1 confusion.

I am still confused by multiple "current" 3par versions and service processors. The big claim by HP when we bought it was all 3pars run the same software. That it was really horsepower and nodes that allowed it to scale.


3.3.1 is quite a big re-write under the covers compared to 3.2.2 ... basically 3.2.2 is broken for some things (de-dupe for one), so they re-did it with 3.3.1 ... and broke new things :-) .. and then also caved in to the marketing department and added new features (compression, with new bugs).
Compression is also done on the CPU of the 3PAR, not the ASICs (dedupe and thin is in the ASICs), the 7200 would be underpowered to do compression .. is the view of HPE.

But yes they really need to knuckle down and stabilise the code into one stream and stop the feature creep ... but oh wait didn;t they buy another storage vendor and that is now their shiney new toy and the 3PAR is now old and boring ? :-)

HPE is like a big kid ... always wants the new toys and never finishes building the old ones.


Exactly, and that is part of what drives me nuts. If I ask anyone in HPE sales, they will tell me to fork lift the 3Par and install the new shiney toy. I am told the new shiney toy will bring new insights to my 3par, then told sorry your unit is not eligible even with current maintenance agreements. I even get support advisories that I should upgrade my software to get new features like InfoSight, for support to tell me I am really not supported for that feature.

I get it. HPE just EOL the 7200's say they are in maintenance only and nothing new will apply and they will be stuck at 3.2.2 and an older service processor with only security or data patches being done for a few more years. Don't tell me I can keep expanding my 7200 still today.


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 Post subject: Re: 7200 3.2.2 MU6 vs 3.3.1 and Service processor 5.0
PostPosted: Thu May 02, 2019 11:34 am 

Joined: Mon Sep 21, 2015 2:11 pm
Posts: 839
Location: Europe
My experience is that you get 3.3.1 on 7k and 10k if there are any features or specific bug fixes there you are looking for.
If no to both, you are probably better off where you are from a performance and/or stability point of view.


As for Infosight I've yet to see any features available on 3.3.1 or 8k/9k/20k which isn't there on 7k and 3.2.2. Some features require the system to be All-Flash and some features require specific support levels.

As for the 7k, the EOL was announced in 2017 and states you should be able to buy disk upgrades for another 17 months. I upgraded a 7200 with cage and disks a couple of months ago. Reviewing the lifecycle of my first 7200 from 3.1.2 in 2013 until 3.2.2 in 2016, that gear has gotten a lot of new features added over the years and comparing to my previous experience with EVAs, MSAs and VNXs, that it seriously night and day.

And when speaking to sales, they always want a fork lift. Ever walked into a car dealership and have a sales rep for new cars tell you to stick with your older model? It's always up to you to figure out of the upgrade justify to cost.

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The views and opinions expressed are my own and do not necessarily reflect those of my current or previous employers.


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 Post subject: Re: 7200 3.2.2 MU6 vs 3.3.1 and Service processor 5.0
PostPosted: Thu May 02, 2019 4:33 pm 

Joined: Fri Aug 26, 2016 3:52 pm
Posts: 5
Truly I dislike flash and the my 4.4 service processor is slow as can be. I want the newer service processor. I have the VM version, so if the newer service processor could talk to 3.2.2 I would be content.

InfoSight enhancments are nice bonus.


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 Post subject: Re: 7200 3.2.2 MU6 vs 3.3.1 and Service processor 5.0
PostPosted: Thu May 02, 2019 4:55 pm 

Joined: Mon Sep 21, 2015 2:11 pm
Posts: 839
Location: Europe
CarlM wrote:
Truly I dislike flash and the my 4.4 service processor is slow as can be. I want the newer service processor. I have the VM version, so if the newer service processor could talk to 3.2.2 I would be content.

InfoSight enhancments are nice bonus.

You dislike flash, or the cost of flash? :D If I could throw out all spinning media and replace with flash at no cost, I would do it in a heartbeat.

Which Infosight enhancements are you talking about? vCenter integration is there in 4.4 so as far as I know, there is nothing in SP5 with regards to Infosight, that isn't already there in 4.4.

FWIW I don't find the new SP any faster than the old one, and to be honest I log on to it like twice a year so speed of SP isn't really something that would annoy me to that extent.... Just making sure, you have given the VM enough resources and your VM environment isn't congested? And of course the most important, is your DNS settings correct? If you have configured DNS and the servers isn't available it takes like forever to log in and navigate.

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The views and opinions expressed are my own and do not necessarily reflect those of my current or previous employers.


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 Post subject: Re: 7200 3.2.2 MU6 vs 3.3.1 and Service processor 5.0
PostPosted: Thu May 02, 2019 8:16 pm 

Joined: Tue Aug 25, 2015 3:01 am
Posts: 32
Quote:
new features added over the years and comparing to my previous experience with EVAs, MSAs and VNXs

:lol: :lol: :lol:
We where an EMC shop with a couple VNX1's arrays (5500/7500)
The amount of times sales promised a feature or something they never delivered on I lost count.
We never pulled the trigger on VNX2 becuase VMware Virtual Volumes (VVOL) wasn't available.
EMC sales told me VVol's would come to VNX2 and we should upgrade today.
Guess what VVol's never come to the VNX2 and never did Near-Line drives greater than 4TB.

I feel like I dodged a massive bullet there because VNX2 turned out to be "meh".
And the 3PAR 8400 was a far superior product than a VNX5800.
Much like HPE's StoreVirtual 3200's they where abit of a lemon :)


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 Post subject: Re: 7200 3.2.2 MU6 vs 3.3.1 and Service processor 5.0
PostPosted: Fri May 03, 2019 3:43 pm 

Joined: Fri Aug 26, 2016 3:52 pm
Posts: 5
MammaGutt wrote:
CarlM wrote:
Truly I dislike flash and the my 4.4 service processor is slow as can be. I want the newer service processor. I have the VM version, so if the newer service processor could talk to 3.2.2 I would be content.

InfoSight enhancments are nice bonus.

You dislike flash, or the cost of flash? :D If I could throw out all spinning media and replace with flash at no cost, I would do it in a heartbeat.

Which Infosight enhancements are you talking about? vCenter integration is there in 4.4 so as far as I know, there is nothing in SP5 with regards to Infosight, that isn't already there in 4.4.

FWIW I don't find the new SP any faster than the old one, and to be honest I log on to it like twice a year so speed of SP isn't really something that would annoy me to that extent.... Just making sure, you have given the VM enough resources and your VM environment isn't congested? And of course the most important, is your DNS settings correct? If you have configured DNS and the servers isn't available it takes like forever to log in and navigate.


Adobe Flash player, not SSD flash.


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