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 Post subject: New 3par 8200c config
PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2018 7:38 am 

Joined: Mon Apr 09, 2018 7:19 am
Posts: 13
Hello everyone :D

We have two arrays actually, one with a 3 tier 7200c (12*480ssd+36*600fc+14*2000nl) with ao and afc, although the AFC doesn't give us practically any benefit and I have reduced it to 128gb per node from the initial 512gb. This one runs all our sap environment, and is 3 years old.

The other is an EVAP6550, 6 years old with about 40 300gb 15k disks and 22 1tb 7,2k, all 2,5" format, that owns the rest of the company and we want to renew it(mail, xenapp, file server, etc etc, backups...)

Ok so we are planning to integrate the two arrays in one new 8200, and leave the 7200 for DR in another site.

The proposed configuration (by me and my manager, after studying all our infraestructures) is having a two cage 8200 with 20*1,92tb SSD , all flash, and have the backups outside the array in a dl380 server with 10*10tb 7,2k drives in raid10.

My only doubt is that if it would be better to have fewer, bigger SSD drives (3,84tb) in only one cage (10-12 of them), or 1,92 is the sweet spot between size and number for our total size. We want to use dedup and compression in many luns.

If yes, which raid level is recommended? A 3+1 raid5 is fine?? I think in the 7200 we have it like that for the ssd tier.

Thanks in advance.


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 Post subject: Re: New 3par 8200c config
PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2018 9:23 am 

Joined: Mon Sep 21, 2015 2:11 pm
Posts: 1570
Location: Europe
RAID6 .... Google RAID5 and URE and you will understand that single-parity is no longer the way to go with the growing size of disks.

I would also stay with 1.92TBs and I would so for two (and a half) reasons.

1. With the second cage you will utilized both internal buses (DP-1 and DP-2)
2. With smaller drives your upgrade increments will be smaller (and cheaper)
(2 1/2. with more drives you get more performance and you have a bigger choice when it comes to set size and RAID levels)

Just as a tip, there is a dedupe estimator internal to the 3PAR system that you can run to get an understanding on how good your data will dedupe. It could be wise to run it to see what type of benefit you can expect. You can trigger it from at least CLI and IMC and I would assume it's hidden somewhere in SSMC as well.

Taking it one step further there is also a dedupe crawler (which run on a windows and/or linux host) that can read thru one or multiple disks connected to a server that can show you want to expect both on dedupe and compression. Keep in mind that it will read all the data on the volume (I think it's throttled at 500MB/s) so it will take time (and possibly run your EVA to the ground unless you throttle it even more) but if you are really unsure on how to size it might be a very good help. It is located at https://saf.itcs.hpe.com and all you need is a Passport Account. It is located under NinjaCrawler.

Considering you are removing more capacity (old EVA + 7200c) than you are adding, so you probably need some dedupe/compression in addition to the backup data you are moving elsewhere.

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 Post subject: Re: New 3par 8200c config
PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2018 9:52 am 

Joined: Mon Apr 09, 2018 7:19 am
Posts: 13
Thank you very much.

And which raid 6 layout do you recommend? 6+2??

The total capacity of the arrays we are migrating is greater, yes, but the actual usage is not. And not only that, the lower tier of both arrays (1tb and 2tb drives) is used for backups and is going to move to the local disks of the dl380 server. I think the raw capacity is nearly double in the new 3par than we need. With dedup and compression I expect at least 1,5:1 (we have a two-node exchange dag of 2tb each...

The total size we are moving to the new array is about 15tb (usable) and I expect to have about 25tb usable in the 8200.

I feel more relaxed now about the ssd size question, hehe

Regards


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 Post subject: Re: New 3par 8200c config
PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2018 10:24 am 

Joined: Wed Nov 09, 2011 12:01 pm
Posts: 392
I've seen a few reports of issues with over doing the dedup/compression on 2 node systems, as you are starting with more space then you need I'd recommend migrating all the data first and see how the load is handled (moving two arrays worth of load to one). Then use the tools to estimate ratios and enable dedup/compression on the best ratio volumes, keep an eye on CPU load on the nodes as you enable more volumes and try to keep it below 50% avg. ;)


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 Post subject: Re: New 3par 8200c config
PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2018 10:48 am 

Joined: Mon Sep 21, 2015 2:11 pm
Posts: 1570
Location: Europe
I agree to some degree. With dedupe, compression and replication a 8200 might get into a resource issue someway down the line. With SSDs probably being a big part of the cost of the solution I would at least consider a 2-node 8440/8450. I wouldn't say the issue is 2-node vs 4-node but the extra CPU cores and cache on the xx40/xx50. More CPU=faster reclaim. The faster nodes probably cost as much as a SSD or two more.... If the system grow you could easily end up in a situation where that actually is cheaper.

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 Post subject: Re: New 3par 8200c config
PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2018 1:44 am 

Joined: Mon Apr 09, 2018 7:19 am
Posts: 13
Ok we are asking for the 8440 price.

Is there any difference between the 40 and 50 version other than the ability to manage hdds??

To work with allflash is better the 8450 or not? I don't understand why this model exists...

Regards


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 Post subject: Re: New 3par 8200c config
PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2018 2:32 am 

Joined: Mon Sep 21, 2015 2:11 pm
Posts: 1570
Location: Europe
Hardware is identical on 8440 and 8450. With the old licensing model, the license cap was lower on the 8450 than on the 8440. Now I'm guessing it's only about pleasing Gartner (and possibly IDC). From what I've been told Gartner will not accept a system that accepts spinning media as an all-flash array so without the 8450, 3PAR will never get a Gartner rating in the all-flash area.... However the system is fully capable of handling spinning media so why not have the 8440. For IDC it's the same deal... An all-flash 8200 or 8440 is considered to be a hybrid array while the 8450 is considered to be an all-flash.

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 Post subject: Re: New 3par 8200c config
PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2018 3:21 am 

Joined: Thu Jun 01, 2017 1:55 am
Posts: 38
and why not the new 9450 ?


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 Post subject: Re: New 3par 8200c config
PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2018 4:20 am 

Joined: Wed Nov 09, 2011 12:01 pm
Posts: 392
Chris212 wrote:
and why not the new 9450 ?

Why not a 208xxR2? :)

There are price hikes as you move up the range, 8200 -> 84xx -> 9450 -> 204xx -> 208xx, as they are looking at a two tray 8200 with more capacity then they need I suspect scaling beyond the 8xxx range might not be economical (as well as extra rack/power/upgrade/maint costs).

Certainly the 84xx with 2 nodes is a good compromise for future upgrades and the additional node power for more compression/dedup scaling but it will come at a cost (the 8200 is very cheap, for a 3PAR ;)), although the more SSDs you add the smaller the price difference becomes.


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 Post subject: Re: New 3par 8200c config
PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2018 3:06 pm 

Joined: Mon Apr 09, 2018 7:19 am
Posts: 13
Well thanks for all the answers.

Now we are aiming at the 8440 2node model.

HP gives us only 3000€ price increase. Let's see what the partner has to say but we are pushing them quite hard to adjust their benefit margin... It's a 130k € operation with the 3par, a DL380 backup server with 100tb local storage, the 16gbps fabric and two Nexus switches for 10gbps core migration.... And a lto8 drive for our msl4048 library.

Regards


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